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PS. Take for example Goldie Hawn and Kurt Russell, who have happily been partners for over 20 years. And then there is Alec Baldwin and Kim Basinger. Enough said I think.

Saying that marraige does not guarantee a happy childhood so we shouldn't bother with it is like saying eating deosn't mean you're not going to get cancer, so it's not neccesarry. With all due respect, please do not refer to Hollywood as an example of healthy family practices. That's laughable. Okay, I really am signing off. I don't mean to stir things up - really I don't.

What makes you an expert? I could bring as an example plenty of couples who have never married, but are a strong family unit. What's laughable is you putting out your statement and then saying that other's statement are. Out of curiosity were you reading these threads, because you are TTC or becaue you need research for your book?

MOMMY2JOSH-i agree that a marriage doesnt mean that the kid will have a happy childhood. you see it everyday where people have kids and are married and then one or both parents abuse a child, or where the parents split and the child is the one hurt in the end.BIDELLE- i dont hink that anyone here said that since marriage doesnt constitute a happy childhood that we should just give up on marriage. i think it is a choice that is personal and everyone has their own reasons to marry or not to marry. i dont think that having a certificate or a ring means that i love myold man anymore than i do now without one. i also do not think that you have to be married to prove to anyone that you love them. i have seen it happen too many times were a couple gets married and then they change as soon as they sign that paper. i have also seen marriages that last for years and have have seen people together not married and stay together for years so for me i think that it is a personal choice and nobody elses business why someone is or not married. people dont agree with alot of things and that is fine you dont have to thats whats great about this world today. you say that you arent condeming people living together who arent married but that is exactly what you are doing.if you dont agree with it then fine but dont start a thread about it and then say you arent trying to condem it or trying to start trouble when that is really what you wanted to do in the first place or you wouldnt have done it. i know women who are having babies with no man around i know married women and i know people like myself who live with someone. i have seen things from all sides and i dont have a problem with it. i have a problem with people more or less saying that because of this or because of that then someone isnt entitled to have kids and that is so wrong. i think anyone is entitled to have kids. it is about how they take care of them afterwards not how they conceive them that matters.

Let me clarify - marriage is not what's critical; healty marriages are what make all the difference. And marriage occurs when 2 adults make a commitment to stay togther for the rest of their lives. That may or may not invovle rings, a certifcate etc. We all know African Americans used to jump over brooms and that was as valid a marriage as anything! I know you said that what's great about our world is everyone gets to mind their own business and do what they please, but that's not what our elementary aged children are saying. Many of them are hurting over their parents' lack of commitment. I understand that marriages split, just like "partners" split - it's all sad to me. I also understand that there are a variety of family units out there, but it's easy to say they are working until you talk to the children and hear how they are hurting. "Why doesn't daddy want to live with me and mommy? My mother's boyfriend doesn't like me as much as my little brother (his biological child)." There are wonderful things about our nation, but please don't tell me you don't recongnize that overall, families are hurting right now. That's all I'm saying.

the why doesnt daddy live with me is for couples who are for whatever reason separated or divorced and has no bearing on a couple who lives together whether they are married or not. and yes there are some men and women who show favoritism to their biological child and that can be done even if the couple is married and is not entirely done because someone lives together unmarried.

a family can also hurt if a couple stays together just for the kids and get married just for the kids. just because someone isnt married to their "partner" doesnt mean that their kids are hurting because i have seen married couples who kids are hurting as well so dont just generalize it to the people who arent married are the bad parents because look at the women who have killed their kids and were married. just because i am not married doesnt mean that i will hurt my kids or that i will not teach them that marriage is good. i believe that i want to raise my child to make their own judgements about what is right for them and not to teach them to follow what everyone else says is good or right.

Slowpoke - I wish you much luck and a giant BFP in the upcoming months. It certainly has been a bumpy road for you and I only hope for you a happy pregnancy and years beyond. You know it's funny because a few months ago I was driving and listening to a telephone drive to raise money for kids with leukemia. One mother said that as women we are always fearful of something going wrong during pregnancy but we never realize that there is more to it. So I wish you a successful pregnancy and many happy and healthy years to follow!!! Dh and I are ready to try again sometime this summer. And for everyone else, I hope that the disagreements can cease and we can truly be supportive of each other. It is hard enough with the problems we face in ttc, we truly don't need the stress and upset of a controversial thread.

Bidelle, kindly ignore Amy, she has claimed that she suffers from multiple personality disorder. She is definately suffering from something.

PBA- that is true. there is alot of things that can go wrong with pregnancy but there are also alot that can go wrong after delivery. my sister had a little boy who died at 6 months old from sids so you just never know what can happen. all you can do is be happy and wish for the best. you dont always plan on things to happen but they do and all you can do is do your best to see the good in every bad situation. i hope that you get a BFP soon and that you have a healthy pregnancy as well and that you are able to give your hubby the child that you both want so bad. take care.

interesting discussion over here. I also tried to get pregnant and luckily got before I got married. We discussed having baby before getting married. we got married because our family members felt it's important for the child to be "legal". I believe being married is important, but does not guarantee anything. Relationship is like business, you have to take care of in, in order to get something out of it. in these days people get married and divorced in the same year. so what the...
Ladies, I wish you lots of love, and good luck TTC. I think Bidelle is doing some research for her book, and need some statistics. so help her out :)