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KB--I don't think this early in the process you hurt your chances of the embies implanting per se. Just be sure not to forget again. At a 2 day transfer it'll be a few days until the embryo(s) are ready to implant but you do need to be building up the progesterone in your system now. If you're really worried call your dr about doubling up today, but don't do that on your own. Otherwise just take today's dose as usual & maybe set aside a certain time each night to take the progesterone. Perhaps set an alarm to remind you. I usually do that & find it helps a lot. Good luck to you, I hope you achieve first time success!!! I'm on the IVF'ers thread here & would love for you to join us on that thread as you await the results of this cycle. Hang in there, it's a stressful time I know. In Feb. I'l be undergoing my 3rd IVF cycle.

Thanks a lot for the helpful information Mega! I will definitely take your tip for setting the alarm each night. I have to wait until 19 Dec (12th day after ET) to do my blood test, don't think the wait's going to be a piece of cake really :)
I'm glad to join the thread, thanks, especially since this is my first IVF.
I have also been feeling mild cramps all day long, wish they would go away. Is this normal?
I do wish you the best of luck for your third cycle, you're so brave!

You're welcome KB. I was glad to see you joined us on the other thread. Yay. You're right, the whole wait til beta on the 19th isn't going to be a piece of cake. But the ladies on the other thread will help you pass the time I'm sure. Always something going on in there. About your cramps--yes, very common after IVF, esp. fresh cycles. This is hard, but with IVF you can't really depend on signs b/c of all the hormones you've been taking & will continue to take. But remember those PIO side effects (s/e) can mask very real pg symptoms too. How many eggs did they retrieve? I had several retrived (24) so my ovaries were swollen for days after the ER, partially responsible for my cramping I think. But then again IVF does have a good 1st time success rate. Here's hoping you're one of them. Thank you for the luck on my 3rd cycle! I'm stubborn, I'll keep at it til I am holding my baby in my arms.

Don't know how many eggs they retrieved but I had great-looking follicles (8 on one side and 5 on the other). Here in France they do things differently. I am going to the best doctor for IVF but he's not very communicative. In France, you just listen to what your doctor says and not ask too many questions!

Four embryos were formed and they transferred 3 (4, 5 and 8 cells resptly). I called today to ask about the quality and they said that they do not grade embryos and that although there was fragmentation, it was minimal. My doctor said that there was a strong possiblity of success. I am trying not to read anything into that though as we tried IUI about 5 times and Clomid (w/o artifical insemination) and nothing took even though our chances looked good. I guess its just that we're older.

Sorry, if its completely obvious but what is PIO? I'm afraid I don't know the abbreviations that are part of the lingo as yet!

What is the hold-up in getting pregnant at your end? I do hope it all goes well. Have you tried acupuncture? I have been twice. Today she had me visualise building a nest for my babies while I lay there with the needles in me :) She also urged me to channel all my energy into my womb so I'm going to start meditating again. Hey, whatever works!

Yes, the abbreviations are hard to get at first. PIO is progesterone in oil (the shot). Although it sounds like you're doing the prog. orally anyway. Most drs here in the states seem to prefer the prog shots but in the end I doubt there's too much difference in how you get the progesterone as long as you get it. Are you originally from France? Your english is perfect. The fact that there's minimal fragmentation sounds promising, it sounds like IF they graded your embies they'd get be high quality, As & Bs. So that bodes well. So did they freeze your 4th embie then? I just did a FET (frozen embie transfer) back in Oct. I was pg briefly but unfortunately m/c. I still think though FETs have good odds of success too. But IVF can be a numbers game. My DH & I both have issues, I have PCOS (polycystic ovarian syndrome) DH has low morphology so that's why we started doing IVF-ICSIs. No I haven't tried accupuncture yet. But I am definitely planning on doing it this time. You're so right, whatever works! I'm glad you're doing it though. Visualization is such a powerful tool, for some reason.

Yup, I'm taking the progesterone orally. The shots sound really painful, are they? I'm originally from India but I'm an Italian national living in Paris and my partner's a Finnish-Swede from Canada. I've been here seven and a half years now. While I absolutely love France and they have a marvelous system that picks up all costs including private clinics, acupuncture, etc. However, there is the language barrier. While I speak French, it isn't good enough to communicate (well) exactly what I feel in a crisis or when something is worrying me. This is very frustrating as is all the terminology in French. Also, they have a different way of doing things here. As I said earlier, the doctor is more or less the boss and you have to put all your trust in him and not ask too many questions. Mine is supposed to be highly competent, as a result, he's incredibly busy all teh time and has two sets of secretaries to pick up the slack. Its quite impressive really! I just hope he can get me some results. But enough of my bellyaching. Where are you from?

Mega, I'm so sorry you m/c, must have been really tough. I just read that even though it looks like women undergoing ARTs have more miscarriages, it might be that they miscarry the same as the average women (who might not realise that she has miscarried since she doesn't even realise that she is pregnant). Its just that our group is more closely monitored. I hope that you feel more confident about success in the future since you actually did get pregnant. As for my 4th embryo, yes, they froze it. Let's see what happens. In addition to acupuncture, have you tried meditating? It takes a certain amount of discipline to put everything aside for 5-10 minutes each day but makes you feel so calm and in control, it just makes things easier to handle. If you are interested, I can recommend a very good book.

At this point I'm interested in anything that may improve my odds of success. I'm not real displined but I can work on it. So that would be great if you could recommend a book on mediatation. Thanks. I'm from Cincinnati, Ohio in the US. Wow, sounds like you've lived a great many places. How exciting. I'm not sure I could deal with the mentality of not questioning the dr though. :) I ask a ton of questions, always have new things, protocols etc I'd like the dr to try. I'm opiniated, nerdy, I love to research things. I try to be nice about it though. But then again, it does sound like your dr is excellent at what he does & that's the main thing I guess. That's nice that accup. is covered, how cool. The cost is what's prohibited me from doing it in the past. But now I figure, what's a little more debt if it yields a baby. Thank you. Yes, the m/c was tough, it's still fresh. But I do feel so much better now knowing (Finally) I can get pregnant. You bring up an excellent point too about the rates of m/c being similar for IVFers than for more fertile types, but yes we definitely get more monitoring so it seems like we have more. However with PCOS (what I have) it does increase the risk of m/c though. But the funny thing is the type of m/c I had probably wasn't exactly totally attributed to the PCOS, it was just a random thing. A blighted ovum. One of my friends who never did any fertility treatments had 2 blighted ovums before giving birth in July to a beautiful baby girl. So that too gives me some hope. Yes, the Prog. (PIO) shots are very painful unfortunately. But my dr thinks the asporption rate is better, & lying on a heat pad for 20 minutes afterwards really helps alleviate any pain so that's good. So have you been setting an alarm for the prog pills? Has it been helping?

The name of the book is "Wherever you go there you are" by Jon Kabat-Zinn and the publisher is Hyperion. Its an American publication and very well known, you should not have any problem finding it. JKZ obviously believes in a God/higher being, I'm agnostic but the references to a higher being did not bother me at all. I bought the book many years ago when I wanted to start meditating. I read a chapter every night and it just calmed me. I'm not a spiritual person in the least so I came to the process with more than a healthy dose of cynicism but I have to say that when I do make the time to meditate, especially if I manage to do this over a number of days, I feel like everything is under control. I'm not very disciplined either so huge stretches of time go by without any meditation. I guess the thing that helps me when I feel overwhelmed is knowing that there is something that I can do about it - I just read a chapter from the book or sit down in quiet meditation. Re. acupuncure, do some research and find one that you really connect with, that is important. Also, it is worth checking to see if you could buy a number of sessions, in order to get a reduction in price. Since an acupuncturist is not a doctor in the traditional sense, this might be possible. On another forum that I subscribe to, one of the women did a specific treatment of 5 sessions and got pregnant naturally! She and her DH had been trying for a number of years without success. Here is a link to acupuncture services in Cinncinati, it rates their services as well which might be useful:http://cincinnati.citysear
ch.com/yellowpages/directory/Cinc
innati_OH/180/353/page1.html.


As
for the prog shots, I did hear that they work better and that taking the prog as suppositories is more effective than orally, let's wait and see. Yes, as per your advice (many thanks), we are setting the alarm every night. The prog dose is so huge that it knocks me out shortly afterwards. I do wish I had started the whole baby-making process earlier but I never wanted kids earlier so here we are now!

Thanks for the book rec, that title sounds very familiar to me. I'm sure I've seen it around. I'll look for it! And thank you so much for the Cincy Accup link. I'll check that out now. Also what a great idea to ask about package pricing. I never thought about that. There's amazing anecdotial evidence that accup works wonders for lots of people. And I think we're living in the right generation for waiting awhile to start trying to have kids, the treatments available for fertility is just amazing. And while if you began earlier you may have had an easier time, at least now you're totally committed to having kids at this point in your life. And you've definitely done a lot of interesting things, interesting experiences. My parents were older by our generations standards, they were 36 when they had me. I think parents' in their mid/late 30s, early 40s tend to be more settled, more patient with their kiddos, in a better place financially perhaps than some younger parents. I know (for me) as much as I wanted kids, I wasn't in a good enough place in my 20s to start trying. Now I think DH & I are more stable. A bit! That's good that the prog pills help you sleep. I've taken them to induce AF before, & you're right they're potent stuff. I don't know about you, but cycling usually distrups my sleep pattern, my brain goes on overdrive so that sounds like a good s/e to me. It's night time or so in Paris, right?

Thanks again for that link to acup places in Cincinnati. I'll probably start calling around this week or next to get pricing, etc. I probably won't start acup til closer to my cycle start date though. How are you doing in your 2 week wait? It's such a tourtous time. Hang in there!

The wait's going okay. The cramps haven't left me but I went for a massge today which was wonderful. Unfortunately, it being cold, I don't really feel like going outdoors much and we live in an apartment as do most people in Paris. In addition, I'm taking a break from work which leaves me with a lot of time. Do you work? Why don't you look into acupuncture right after the holidays end, just in case the specialist advises 3 or 4 or 5 treatments over a couple of months to prepare your womb? Thanks for your views on older parents, I do hope that I'll be a relaxed mom. I can't think of anything worse for a kid than obsessive parents! What does AF mean? And by 'cycling' I guess you mean the IVF cycle and not exercse on a bicycle, right? :) Speaking of exercise, I'm dying to get to the gym or go for a run. Normally, I have to drag myself to the gym but after doing nothing for the last week I feel going for a long run, no matter the weather! Paris is 6 hours ahead of the east coast of the U.S.

AF is Aunt Flo, or a period. Yes, by cycling I definitely meant an IVF cycle. :) My exercise bike is making an excellent clothes rack right now. LOL! Good for you for exercising though. I plan on (though I'm sure my resolve will be short lived, as usual) getting into the walking habit in my 2 month break. Oh, only 6 hours ahead of me time wise, I thought it was closer to 8. I work 4 days a week, Mon thru Thurs, which actually helps a lot when it comes to IVF, because if I need to take me day off earlier than Friday my boss is fine with that. It just gives me lots of flexiblity. In some ways I think taking time off work like you is probably a great idea, but then like you I'd have problems filling the hours myself. The massage you had today was a wonderful idea! Pamper yourself this week. Bet it was pure bliss. I plan on going for a hot rocks massage myself in a couple of weeks. Mmmm. I didn't even think about starting acup early to prep my womb, makes sense. I was just planning on starting closer to my IVF cycle b/c of the cost of it. But then again I don't know yet how much I'm looking at, might be less than I fear. And compared to IVF, well nothing practically seems expensive after that. :) Plus DH & I bought a IVF package deal so it's more upfront (about twice what 1 cycle a la carte would be) but since we'll be doing cycle #3 (fresh cycle #2) I'm soooo glad we decided to buy the package though. What part of Paris do you live in? I was there when I was a teenager, so aeons ago. Loved it though & would love to go with my DH one of these days. Probably won't be for several years now though. So romantic, at least from a touristy point of view.

I've never had a hot rocks massage although I've been curious about it. Tell me if you like it. What is the philosophy behing hot rocks anyway?
Preparing the womb through acupuncture is what this other woman did (on the other site I subscribe to). Her husband also did acupuncture and they conceived.
As for exercise, if I'm not pregnant, I plan to start running again and I'm going to start doing the Power Plate as well. Have you heard about it? So I have that to look forward to in case this cycle doesn't work. I have put on so much weight through this IVF cycle, its incredible! In the past, I would take a month's break from IUI or Clomid to exercise like crazy and lose some of the extra weight but not all of it would come off before I started another cycle. Therefore, I have been getting a little bit heavier with each try and now I'm at my heaviest and I've never been a big girl! And my breasts are like melons now :) Heavens!
Sorry for moaning, I just find it a little frustrating to see myself get all distorted for something that has such a small possibility of succeeding anyway. Another 5 days wait, it does seem endless, doesn't it?
I live not far from the Eiffel Tower, very close to the river Seine. It's a lovely neighbourhood, full of old buildings and little shops. That's one thing that's nice about Paris, they treasure their " mom and pop" stores so you find these absolute treasures tucked away in little alleys. But to be perfectly honest, life is pretty crazy here. Paris, being a bustling metropolis, is full of traffic and people and there aren't enough hours in the day to get everything done. You find yourself on the run from the moment you wake up till the moment you go to bed. I was brought up a military brat in India and we had these lovely, vast, spaces to play in. Our parents never worried about us getting lost or kidnapped or anything because the base was always well-protected. That's what I want for any kids that we might have - space to run around. Paris, unfortunately, doesn't have any of that. Children live in apartments with either a parent or a nanny in tow at all times. They can be taken to a park to play and that's it in terms of outdoor activity. I would love to move outside the city or move to Canada where we could get more for our money. What about you? What's Cincinnati like?
Hey, that's great that you got an IVF package! I didn't even know that that was possible. How does it work in the U.S.? Is IVF not covered by medical insurance at all? That seems a little cruel since the actual costs can put an immense amount of stress on a family's resources without even any guarantee of success. Is it because the U.S. wants to cut back on the birth rate? I know that in the U.K, only one cycle of IVF is covered with a limit of 2 embies that can be transferred, this is to keep birth rates low. In France, I think that in total terms, the birth rate is quite low. Italy actually has a negative birth rate!

Hi! IVF in the US varies so much. Lots of people have IVF coverage via their insurance, lots more people do not. A few states mandate some type of infertility coverage, most do not. OH does but not for treatments like IVF/IUI. The plan I'm on is called Shared Risk, a few other US posters on this board are also doing Shared Risk. It's a gamble for both the outside company offering it & for the consumer too b/c if you get pg on the 1st time you're out so much money but if it take several times then it's a risk for the Shared Risk company. Since it covers 3 fresh & 3 frozen cycles and we'll be on our 2nd fresh cycle come Feb. I'm so so glad we went ahead & did it. If no take home baby by then, we'll get 70% of our money back which is great. Plus I respond well to the drugs so we'll have many eggs remaining so I can keep on trying FETs if need be. I think I maybe respond better to frozen transfers (FETs) myself. Yes, the wait is endless, nothing stretches out 5 days more than the waiting period after IVF. I thought it was rough waiting for the results after an IUI, that was nothing compared to the IVF wait. Right? So is IVF also covered in France? You said the UK limits how many you can do. The same for France? I've had a hot rocks massage before. I find it pure bliss. I'm not sure the philosophy behind it, but I love hot showers, hot soaks in the tub etc. so to me it's so much more relaxing. Not good to do if you're pg though. I know, it's terrible what these hormones do to our weight. I gained a bit of weight when I started developing PCOS (directly related in my opinion) before then I was very very thin. Then when I started taking drugs to conceive I gained even more weight. Grrr. However, with the stress of my recent m/c I've fortunately lost a few pounds and am thinner than I've been in a long while though I'm way bigger still than what I should be for my size. I'm short. I think this time I'm going to take advantage of my break time to see if I can't drop another 10-12 Ibs., I've said before I was going to do that, but never got it done. Lazy. But I'm bolstered by the fact I've lost a few pounds already. So we'll see. Sounds like you grew up in an idyllic area, lots of space to play. In some ways I think a big city like Paris would be wonderful to grow up in, lots of culture, tons of things to do morning, noon & night, but you're right, big open spaces to play in is also important. Does your partner want to move back to Canada? Does he have a lot of family still in Canada? That might be nice for the kids & for you all in terms of support. Though moving overseas wouldn't be an easy thing to just do. Cincinnati is a small big city, if that makes sense. We live in the suburbs though. That's all I've ever lived in though, the burbs outside medium sized cities. I'd love the hustle & bustle of city life I think but I agree with you that open spaces tend to be better environments for raising kiddos. I had no idea Italy had a neg. birthrate. And that's interesting about the UK's one IVF limit. It's nice that it's covered though. What's the IVF birthrate in France? I don't think it's esp. low here in the US, but people forget sometimes that like anything else it's a numbers game. Which is ashame since it's so expensive like you said. How expensive are fertility drugs in France? I'm always shocked to find out how much the price varies country to country. Did you use the pharmacy called IVFmeds.com to order yours? I haven't since it's based in Europe & would be so expensive to ship but even ladies in the US have used it and liked it. The prices are supposed to be quite reasonable. You have your pregnancy test (beta) on Tuesday right? I'm sure this weekend will seem to go slow for you. Hang in there! Hopefully you & your partner can do something fun to keep your mind off things, as much as that's possible.

All my costs are covered in France and abroad, if I choose to be treated outside the country. The system takes care of people here but we also pay high taxes. Between social security and complementary insurance, most people in France get most of their costs covered. My DP is a diplomat so he has particularly good coverage. I'm able to go to the American Hospital which is a private hospital. This is a real plus since I can communicate in English there without having to struggle in French. When things aren't working out, nothing's worse than having to search for words in a foreign language! And believe me, I've had to do a lot of that because I've lived in non-English language countries for so many years.
For the average person in France who has only s.security and no comp insurance, they have to pay about 60% of regular medical costs but if they go for IVF, s.s. picks up 100%. Drugs aren't very expensive either. If there are drugs you need that are prohibitively expensive in the U.S., let me know. I can find out what they cost here. However, one does need a prescription. I don't have to order my drugs. I take my prescription to a pharmacy and buy them there. I think that the cost of the meds is heavily subsidised that's why they are really cheap and whatever you do pay is reimbursed between s.s. and comp insurance.

The package for IVF at your end sounds like a great deal, especially since I've been reading about women paying 10,000 dollars a cycle in the U.S., is that possible?

I love hot showers, baths etc. too, ummm! I think that I would love a hot rocks massage, now I have to try it.

I have been thin only when a relationship hasn't worked out and I'm feeling emotionally upset. At those times, I feel awful but at least I look great :) Always been slim though but I feel like even that is history. I feel like a butterball now. Need to lose 5-6 kilos myself. We have to prioritise though, right?

Your life sounds very nice. More and more, I want to move out of the city and live in the suburbs, even the country! My partying days are over. Now, I'd rather get together with friends for drinks, dinner and good conversation. We have a favourite bar that we meet up with our friends at each Friday and often during the week as well. However, I no longer want to go there since it is so smoky. In France, smoking is still permitted everywhere. They're going to stop this in 2008 but till then we are surrounded by smoke. I used to smoke and don't really have a problem with smokers. Its just that its not very agreeable when one is trying to have a baby. But on the positive side, more and more people are quitting. In our group of friends, there's only one guy that's still smokes. Even my DP who smoked cigars for many years quit last year and he is the most intolerant non-smoker I know now!

Yes, I test next Tuesday. I'm sure my period will arrive that day as well since I have a very regular 28-day cycle. Don't know how I'll make it to then. I have a few Christmas parties to go to over the weekend so that'll help pass the time. I normally drink 1 or 2 glasses of champagne when I go out. I don't like wine or any other type of alcohol. Now that I order a glass of mineral water or diet Coke people won't stop asking me if I'm pregnant and that's just awful because I haven't told anybody that I'm doing all these treatments although they do know that we're trying vaguely to have a baby. It might not be so noticeable in another country but over here everyone drinks (wine) and I stick out like a sore thumb these days. Oh well!

Have a good evening, xxx